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	<title>Comments on: Why counting uniques is meaningless</title>
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	<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/</link>
	<description>Official blog for the book Advanced Web Metrics with Google Analytics by Brian Clifton</description>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/comment-page-1/#comment-21856</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 01:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/?p=404#comment-21856</guid>
		<description>Brian,

yeh, sorry I was trying to be brief. And as you know this topic generates a lot of heat.

As for seven visits being seven opportunities to sell, I sort of agree, but i would make the point it depends on what you&#039;re selling.

If it&#039;s a low value item then probably it is seven opportunities to sell seven different items.

If it&#039;s a high value item, say a house, then it&#039;s seven opportunities to build a relationship and probably only one opportunity for a sale.

And the business owner will want to know if they are dealing with one person or seven.

And as I said, no matter how you dress it up and explain it, management and business owners will take whatever number you give them as &quot;real people&quot; They always have.

I fully understand and accept your point about the data accuracy issue, but it&#039;s view taken from a technical standpoint, I might even say left brain, methodical type.

The marketer and business owner wants to know the number of real people, which is more right brain, intuitive, humanistic. (Ooops, I&#039;ve probably started a whole &#039;nother debate now.)

As I keep implying we are never going to &quot;educate them and move on&quot; about the distinction between uniques and visits, because they are are trying to educate us about what they want, not what we can give them.

In any event, let&#039;s not get too obsessed over conversion rate, because it is in itself a very flawed metric.

A site with a 2% conversion rate can easily be a much better performing site than one with a 20% conversion rate. 

We do need to move on to a metric or set of metric that gives a more accurate picture of how a website is performing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian,</p>
<p>yeh, sorry I was trying to be brief. And as you know this topic generates a lot of heat.</p>
<p>As for seven visits being seven opportunities to sell, I sort of agree, but i would make the point it depends on what you&#8217;re selling.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s a low value item then probably it is seven opportunities to sell seven different items.</p>
<p>If it&#8217;s a high value item, say a house, then it&#8217;s seven opportunities to build a relationship and probably only one opportunity for a sale.</p>
<p>And the business owner will want to know if they are dealing with one person or seven.</p>
<p>And as I said, no matter how you dress it up and explain it, management and business owners will take whatever number you give them as &#8220;real people&#8221; They always have.</p>
<p>I fully understand and accept your point about the data accuracy issue, but it&#8217;s view taken from a technical standpoint, I might even say left brain, methodical type.</p>
<p>The marketer and business owner wants to know the number of real people, which is more right brain, intuitive, humanistic. (Ooops, I&#8217;ve probably started a whole &#8216;nother debate now.)</p>
<p>As I keep implying we are never going to &#8220;educate them and move on&#8221; about the distinction between uniques and visits, because they are are trying to educate us about what they want, not what we can give them.</p>
<p>In any event, let&#8217;s not get too obsessed over conversion rate, because it is in itself a very flawed metric.</p>
<p>A site with a 2% conversion rate can easily be a much better performing site than one with a 20% conversion rate. </p>
<p>We do need to move on to a metric or set of metric that gives a more accurate picture of how a website is performing.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Brian Clifton</title>
		<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/comment-page-1/#comment-21841</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Clifton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 14:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/?p=404#comment-21841</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Mark&lt;/strong&gt;: thanks for your input on this discussion. I would be interested to know why the following statement  from you is so important - &quot;&lt;em&gt;We don’t want one customer who made seven visits counted as seven people.&lt;/em&gt;&quot;

That is 7 opportunities to sell/build a relationship - what difference does it make if it is the same person, or seven different people? Of course there is a difference to the business. You want to know if you have a repeat, loyal customers - and your e-commerce reports will tell you this. However, form a website conversion optimisation point of view, it is not important to make that differentiation.

In an idea world, yes we would use unique visitors - but that isn&#039;t the case, and more importantly it *never* will be. So should we stick with a flawed metric or educate users to move on? The point of this post was to add a vote (and the reasoning behind it) to the latter. That is, move away from unique visitors*.

*If you are a website that requires a log-in to access/purchase content, then it still makes sense to use unique visitors. For example, publishing or an ebay, amazon type of site.

BTW, I certainly prefer revenue related metrics as KPIs to any others. Even if not a transactional site, &quot;value&quot; should be caluclated where possible. A couple of relevant posts on this:

&lt;ul&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2010/06/10/why-web-measurement-is-easy-yet-gaining-insights-is-hard/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why web measurement is easy, yet gaining insights is hard&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
	&lt;li&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2010/05/11/how-much-value-is-your-website-generating/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Show Me the Money: How much value is your website generating?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/li&gt;
&lt;/ul&gt;

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mark</strong>: thanks for your input on this discussion. I would be interested to know why the following statement  from you is so important &#8211; &#8220;<em>We don’t want one customer who made seven visits counted as seven people.</em>&#8221;</p>
<p>That is 7 opportunities to sell/build a relationship &#8211; what difference does it make if it is the same person, or seven different people? Of course there is a difference to the business. You want to know if you have a repeat, loyal customers &#8211; and your e-commerce reports will tell you this. However, form a website conversion optimisation point of view, it is not important to make that differentiation.</p>
<p>In an idea world, yes we would use unique visitors &#8211; but that isn&#8217;t the case, and more importantly it *never* will be. So should we stick with a flawed metric or educate users to move on? The point of this post was to add a vote (and the reasoning behind it) to the latter. That is, move away from unique visitors*.</p>
<p>*If you are a website that requires a log-in to access/purchase content, then it still makes sense to use unique visitors. For example, publishing or an ebay, amazon type of site.</p>
<p>BTW, I certainly prefer revenue related metrics as KPIs to any others. Even if not a transactional site, &#8220;value&#8221; should be caluclated where possible. A couple of relevant posts on this:</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2010/06/10/why-web-measurement-is-easy-yet-gaining-insights-is-hard/" rel="nofollow">Why web measurement is easy, yet gaining insights is hard</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog/2010/05/11/how-much-value-is-your-website-generating/" rel="nofollow">Show Me the Money: How much value is your website generating?</a></li>
</ul>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/comment-page-1/#comment-21832</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 09:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/?p=404#comment-21832</guid>
		<description>Oh, and one more thing. I think if everyone started using Visits as the basis for their conversion rate calcualtion, the global average conversion rate would be well below 1%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and one more thing. I think if everyone started using Visits as the basis for their conversion rate calcualtion, the global average conversion rate would be well below 1%.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/comment-page-1/#comment-21831</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Aug 2010 09:10:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/?p=404#comment-21831</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think this argument is going to be resolved anytime soon.

While I understand the logic of why Visits is a more accurate measure, I disagree with favouring it over Uniques.

Visits is accurate from a technical standpoint, but as marketers and business owners we want to know how many customers (people) visited our sites and bought from us. And in that regard Visits is obviously a useless metric.

We don&#039;t want one customer who made seven  visits counted as seven people.

Uniques is closer to the mark than Visits even with all it&#039;s flaws listed above, but at present it&#039;s the best we&#039;ve got.

If we were to take this argument to it&#039;s logical conclusion then all analytics packages are useless because none of them can tell us how many real people actually came to our website.

But I digress.

The other thing to remember is that it doesn&#039;t matter what term you tell management they will interpret it as real people numbers.

Surely most of you will remember when &quot;hits&quot; was used to mean real people, until most of us found out it was counting all the elements on a page etc, etc.

The point is, you&#039;re not going to change how management hears it, no matter how detailed your explanations, because it&#039;s not what they want to hear.

As I&#039;ve said, they want to know real people numbers.

But fear not, there is a much more definitive metric you can use that everyone will understand, management will love and there will be no confusion about:

&quot;Our site did $X00,000 last month.&quot;

Now that&#039;s a metric, and one that the bank manager will gladly accept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think this argument is going to be resolved anytime soon.</p>
<p>While I understand the logic of why Visits is a more accurate measure, I disagree with favouring it over Uniques.</p>
<p>Visits is accurate from a technical standpoint, but as marketers and business owners we want to know how many customers (people) visited our sites and bought from us. And in that regard Visits is obviously a useless metric.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t want one customer who made seven  visits counted as seven people.</p>
<p>Uniques is closer to the mark than Visits even with all it&#8217;s flaws listed above, but at present it&#8217;s the best we&#8217;ve got.</p>
<p>If we were to take this argument to it&#8217;s logical conclusion then all analytics packages are useless because none of them can tell us how many real people actually came to our website.</p>
<p>But I digress.</p>
<p>The other thing to remember is that it doesn&#8217;t matter what term you tell management they will interpret it as real people numbers.</p>
<p>Surely most of you will remember when &#8220;hits&#8221; was used to mean real people, until most of us found out it was counting all the elements on a page etc, etc.</p>
<p>The point is, you&#8217;re not going to change how management hears it, no matter how detailed your explanations, because it&#8217;s not what they want to hear.</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve said, they want to know real people numbers.</p>
<p>But fear not, there is a much more definitive metric you can use that everyone will understand, management will love and there will be no confusion about:</p>
<p>&#8220;Our site did $X00,000 last month.&#8221;</p>
<p>Now that&#8217;s a metric, and one that the bank manager will gladly accept.</p>
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		<title>By: briankeithmay</title>
		<link>http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/2009/02/11/why-counting-uniques-is-meaningless/comment-page-1/#comment-15377</link>
		<dc:creator>briankeithmay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 04:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.Advanced-Web-Metrics.com/blog/?p=404#comment-15377</guid>
		<description>RT @brianclifton: From my blog Measuring Success: Why counting uniques is meaningless http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RT @brianclifton: From my blog Measuring Success: Why counting uniques is meaningless <a href="http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog.." rel="nofollow">http://www.advanced-web-metrics.com/blog..</a>.</p>
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